Monday, July 17, 2017

UPDATE on the Story about the USS Liberty being rescued by a Russian Destroyer - Has Russia's Official Memory Improved????

UPDATE on the Story about the USS Liberty
being rescued by a Russian Destroyer

I can't seem to get the mystery of the Russian Destroyer 626/4 of the Soviet Navy off my mind.  Following up on my earlier post of July 14, 2017, I did some further research this afternoon and came up with this link...which appears to debunk the testimony of Liberty survivor and crew member John Hrankowski.  Surely there are other survivors of the Liberty that could validate or invalidate the story.  The Hrankowski story, complete with ship number certainly rings more authentic to me than the subsequent stories.  

Russia likely doesn't want to validate the story because such an admission would support the theory that Russia was "listening in" to the American spy ship's communications with Israel and, as the Soviet Union was allied with Egypt at the time, would have alerted Egypt as to any war maneuvers that Israel was making.  Additionally, in 2002, when the story below was written, Russia was still trying to curry favour with the American government.  Today, the situation between the two countries being radically different, perhaps the "memory" of the Russian Officials has improved [sarc].  Lastly, I don't think RT would have televised a program "commemorating the event of the attack on the USS Liberty" and then lied about the involvement of a Russian Destroyer.  At any rate, the entire story below, as it pertains to the debunking of the  "Russian destroyer" element of the USS Liberty story, has a smell of disinformation...but even so is worth reading just as a baseline to what was going on in the Mediterranean in the "Hot summer of 1967".  Please read the following Pravda report and I will have more thoughts in comments to follow:

Hot summer of 1967: The Israeli attack on America and the 'Soviet destroyer.'

14.09.2002 | Source:

Pravda.Ru

Two months ago, PRAVDA.Ru published an interview with John Hrankowski, a survivor and crew member of the USS Liberty, who had been on board the American vessel on the tragic morning of June 8, 1967 when the Liberty was attacked by the Israeli air force.
Mr.Hrankowski mentioned a really interesting and important fact just in passing: “American ships arrived only in 16 hours after the attack. A Soviet ship offered help to us on that night. They said that they would stay just at the horizon and, if our ship began to sink, they would help us.”
This fact has drawn our special attention. Former officer of the US Navy and film producer Richard Thompson recently helped produce a film about the tragic June 8 event. Mr. Thompson recommended us to talk to Russian submariner Captain Nikolay Charkashin, who has been investigating the circumstances surrounding the Liberty tragedy during the past several years. What is more, a book by Nikolay Cherkashin, “Mysteries of Lost Warships,” was recently published. This is the result of his independent investigations of Russian submarines from Empress Maria to the Kursk.
A PRAVDA.Ru journalist met with Nikolay Cherkashin, and we offer the following interview to our readers. It was rather unexpected to hear Nikolay Cherkashin say that no Russian ship was close to the USS Liberty that night.
- What happened to the Liberty is an astonishing and unique fact, but Soviet sailors had no connection with it. However, according to Thompson’s version, two Soviet ships were allegedly in the area and offered help but the Americans refused. In my mind, this information isn’t true. No Soviet ships were in close vicinity during the attack. Moreover, the very fact of the attack against the USS Liberty was practically unknown to the Soviet people. Probably, only the Soviet defense minister, Chairman of the Soviet government Kosygin, and several top officials in the government knew about it, that’s all.
I wanted to find evidence among Russian sailors, but in vain. Headquarters Commander of the 5th operative squadron Admiral Platonov was the first to lead his squadron to the site on June 26; however, nothing is mentioned in his memoirs about Soviet sailors offering help to the Liberty. If that really happened, I think he would have mentioned it for sure.
Who do you think spread that version?
- I myself would also like to know the answer to that question. Fleet Admiral Ivan Kapitanets, for example, mentions nothing at all about the June 8 events in his memoirs. In his book “War At Sea,” he wrote that he led Soviet ships to the western part of the Mediterranean Sea on June 1. “On June 4, we were ordered to put the ship in the state of a complete war alert within 12 hours. Probably, Moscow knew something just 24 hours before the tragic event. This time was required to check the ammunition. The Arab-Israeli 7-day war started on June 5. I received an order to travel to the Antikitir Strait, receive landing forces, and be ready to land them in the port of Ataki for the sake of protect Soviet people there. On June 7, we arrived to the Antikitir Strait.” And not a single word is said about the events on June 8, 1967. When I asked him about the USS Liberty and a Soviet ship, he said he had known nothing about the event; it was a revelation for him.
Who was the first to spread information about a Soviet ship that offered help to the USS Liberty?
- I think it was former Liberty officer Lieutenant James Ennes (Nikolay Cherkashin showed a translation of the book Assault on the Liberty by James H. Ennes). He describes in detail what happened with the crew during the Israeli attack, and he describes the event from different angles.
James Ennes:
“For one day and night when the ship was slowly moving northward, no other ships or planes could be seen. At midnight, the Liberty came across the 626/4 Soviet missile destroyer that signaled in English. The following information was exchanged by both ships:
626/4: Do you need help?
Liberty: No, thanks.
626/4: I will stay at the horizon and be ready to help if you need it.
The Soviet ship followed a parallel course at a distance of several miles for the next six hours. At dawn, the Liberty radar station discovered the American destroyers Massey and Davis. The Soviet destroyer turned eastward and joined the ships of the 6th fleet. Aircraft carriers were not far behind the destroyers, and wounded sailors from the Liberty were delivered by helicopters to the aircraft carrier, to its hospital. The Liberty continued its course to Malta, where, as the crew was told, the assault would be investigated by a Navy court.”
But the hull number was even mentioned!
- Yes, we know the number. The matter of the fact is it is still a secret to whom it belonged. The 626/4 destroyer wasn’t at that time in the eastern part of Mediterranean. I tried to find some veterans of the Soviet Navy who had been there in the summer of 1967, but in vain. Also, nothing is also mentioned in the archives.
Well, let’s go back to the attack on the Liberty. Could it have been a tragic accident when the US ship was mistakenly taken for an Egyptian cargo ship? Was it a deliberate attack? Provocation? What do you think about it?
- Last year, a Russian translation of Joseph Daichman’s “History of the Mossad” was published in Moscow. The author describes the tragedy in 1967 in detail. He admits that it was perfectly clear that the Liberty was an American ship and that the attack was committed to deprive the USA “of its eyes and ears,” of the opportunity to control the situation. Daichman says the attackers had the right to act so. The Israelis feared that the Liberty would report information about the course of the war: they wanted to keep it a secret that troops had been shifted to Syria and the Egyptian border wasn’t protected at all. The border was quite open for Egyptian soldiers to cross. Israel knew that American radio signals were intercepted by the Soviet Union, and the latter would certainly inform Egypt of the fact. That is why the Liberty was to be sunk to avoid leakage of important information. This is a very cynical version. I even couldn’t have thought that I would ever read it.
There is also one more opinion…
- Yes, another version is that Israeli wanted to provoke the USA and involve it in a war against Arab countries. This version is still out there. Mr. Thompson supports it as well. I have known him for ten years already; by the way, it was he who told me about the Liberty tragedy. Richard Thompson is a fair and very active man, and he is persistent with his struggle for his ideas. US top officials wanted to hush up the Liberty scandal, as it was really disgusting and dirty. What is more, that was an unprecedented act, the first attack against US ships since Pearl Harbor. And the attack was committed by those whom America supported so strongly. Right after the accident, the US Congress organized no investigations at all, which was mere nonsense at that time!
Do you think it is possible now to start a new investigation of the tragedy but on a higher level?
- If someone in the government is concerned, an investigation can be initiated. But currently the USA has no time for it; it is preoccupied with the war against terrorism. However, we can call the Liberty tragedy an act of terrorism as well. By the way, it seems to me that the 9/11 attacks at the WTC and Pentagon are very much like the tragedy with the USS Liberty. This also seems to have been a well weighted provocation. The USS Liberty was a very old ship that operated since WWII. Probably, that is why it was the Liberty that was sacrificed. Do you mean that America was ready for that kind of attack?
I think America knew. Even sailors anticipated the tragedy and felt depressed. When the ship stopped in Spain, a famous prophetess told the Liberty sailors that the ship wouldn’t return home. Richard Thompson has been investigating the Liberty tragedy for several years. As a result, he has arrived at the conclusion that the attack had been a well-planned action of the Israeli and American special services. The USA was up to its neck in a bloody war in Vietnam and wouldn’t get involved into a lingering Mideast conflict. That is why it rejected direct military support to Israel. However, there were quite enough hawks in America of that period who wanted to turn a regional war into a large-scale battle. Especially at the cost of an old ship built in 1945.
Which version do you prefer?
- Both versions don’t contradict each other. Both objects could be pursued at once, and two birds could be killed with one stone. Israel wanted to stop leakage of information and, at the same time, established a precedent for US troops to fight against Arabs. If the Americans landed, the Soviet troops would also have done the same, and a great stir would have started then.
The Soviet submarine K-172 under the command of Nikolay Shashkov armed with missiles and nuclear warheads was at the very same moment in the Bay of Sidre. The submarine received instructions to surface and deliver a blow against the Israeli coast if the Americans landed troops on Syrian shores. The submarine had eight nuclear missiles on board. However, as we know the Israeli coast means the whole sate of Israel stretched along the sea. Israel would have been completely destroyed if such blows were delivered by the Soviet submarine. I wrote about Nikolay Shashkov; the publication was called “The Man Who Was to Destroy Israel.” The publication produced a strong response from society. I received inquiries from the Israeli Embassy, and many journalists wanted just to see the man who was to liquidate the Israeli state. The K-172 crew had to operate under emergency conditions; the submariners nearly died of high concentration of mercury vapor in its compartments. Several people were poisoned with the vapor, suffered from hallucinations and giddiness, and no explanation could be found to it. Can you imagine what submariners suffering from hallucinations could have done with nuclear warheads? They were to have been immediately sent to hospitals. However, as the situation in the region was still tense, the Soviet Navy commander-in-chief asked the submariners if they would be able to stay in the area for several more weeks, and the submariners agreed. Even when doctors were sent to the submarine, they failed to find the cause of hallucinations and giddiness. Nobody even guessed that was mercury, and people spent two months in the compartments poisoned with mercury vapors.
Submariners from the Soviet B-31 submarine had to face an even harder situation. When the war began, the submarine was transferred from the Atlantic Ocean to the eastern part of Mediterranean Sea. A disastrous fire broke out somewhere in the Tunisian Strait; it took over 24 hours to extinguish the fire. Five master sergeants and sailors perished because of the fire. And, for the first time since WWII, perished sailors were buried at sea. Large-scale repairs were started on the submarine, and, after that, the submarine set off for the Bay of Sidre. Therefore, Soviet submariners experienced very difficult situations, and many of them fell indirect victims to that Mideast war. However, none of these submariners also heard about the Liberty. To tell the truth, it wasn’t a matter of their concern.
The USS Liberty is a bloody secret of the Cold War. Was there any Soviet destroyer at all, or it was just a myth? Captain Nikolay Cherkashin thinks that it is impossible to find a 100% answer to the question, as too much time has passed since the tragedy.
Sergey Stefanov PRAVDA.Ru
Translated by Maria Gousseva
Read the original in Russian: http://pravda.ru/main/2002/09/13/47015.html
Related links:
I think America knew. Even sailors anticipated the tragedy and felt depressed. When the ship stopped in Spain, a famous prophetess told the Liberty sailors that the ship wouldn’t return home. Richard Thompson has been investigating the Liberty tragedy for several years. As a result, he has arrived at the conclusion that the attack had been a well-planned action of the Israeli and American special services. The USA was up to its neck in a bloody war in Vietnam and wouldn’t get involved into a lingering Mideast conflict. That is why it rejected direct military support to Israel. However, there were quite enough hawks in America of that period who wanted to turn a regional war into a large-scale battle. Especially at the cost of an old ship built in 1945.
Which version do you prefer?
- Both versions don’t contradict each other. Both objects could be pursued at once, and two birds could be killed with one stone. Israel wanted to stop leakage of information and, at the same time, established a precedent for US troops to fight against Arabs. If the Americans landed, the Soviet troops would also have done the same, and a great stir would have started then.
The Soviet submarine K-172 under the command of Nikolay Shashkov armed with missiles and nuclear warheads was at the very same moment in the Bay of Sidre. The submarine received instructions to surface and deliver a blow against the Israeli coast if the Americans landed troops on Syrian shores. The submarine had eight nuclear missiles on board. However, as we know the Israeli coast means the whole sate of Israel stretched along the sea. Israel would have been completely destroyed if such blows were delivered by the Soviet submarine. I wrote about Nikolay Shashkov; the publication was called “The Man Who Was to Destroy Israel.” The publication produced a strong response from society. I received inquiries from the Israeli Embassy, and many journalists wanted just to see the man who was to liquidate the Israeli state. The K-172 crew had to operate under emergency conditions; the submariners nearly died of high concentration of mercury vapor in its compartments. Several people were poisoned with the vapor, suffered from hallucinations and giddiness, and no explanation could be found to it. Can you imagine what submariners suffering from hallucinations could have done with nuclear warheads? They were to have been immediately sent to hospitals. However, as the situation in the region was still tense, the Soviet Navy commander-in-chief asked the submariners if they would be able to stay in the area for several more weeks, and the submariners agreed. Even when doctors were sent to the submarine, they failed to find the cause of hallucinations and giddiness. Nobody even guessed that was mercury, and people spent two months in the compartments poisoned with mercury vapors.
Submariners from the Soviet B-31 submarine had to face an even harder situation. When the war began, the submarine was transferred from the Atlantic Ocean to the eastern part of Mediterranean Sea. A disastrous fire broke out somewhere in the Tunisian Strait; it took over 24 hours to extinguish the fire. Five master sergeants and sailors perished because of the fire. And, for the first time since WWII, perished sailors were buried at sea. Large-scale repairs were started on the submarine, and, after that, the submarine set off for the Bay of Sidre. Therefore, Soviet submariners experienced very difficult situations, and many of them fell indirect victims to that Mideast war. However, none of these submariners also heard about the Liberty. To tell the truth, it wasn’t a matter of their concern.
The USS Liberty is a bloody secret of the Cold War. Was there any Soviet destroyer at all, or it was just a myth? Captain Nikolay Cherkashin thinks that it is impossible to find a 100% answer to the question, as too much time has passed since the tragedy.
Sergey Stefanov PRAVDA.Ru
Translated by Maria Gousseva
Read the original in Russian: http://pravda.ru/main/2002/09/13/47015.html

**************************


I would certainly like to read some more USS Liberty Survivors' accounts of what happened on June 8. 1967 before drawing any final conclusions about any Russian involvement in the attack on the Liberty by Israel.  My inclination, at this point in time, is to believe the testimony of USS Liberty Crew Member John Hrankowski. 

The Official US and Russian sources have so many reasons to lie about it.  Although Russia may be more inclined to tell the truth now than it was back in 2002.  Some intrepid investigative Russian reporter should ask Putin or one of his spokespersons at the next opportunity.  If any of my readers comes across any further information on this topic, please add it to the comments below and I would be most appreciative!

gc

9 comments:

RickB said...

Stories Garnered from selling my Remember the USS Liberty targets at gun shows

Story One: At one show sales were slow and I got tired of people walking past my table and being ignored so I began chanting “great deals on targets; free forbidden knowledge about the attack on the USS Liberty,” referring to brief handout fliers on my table describing the attack. Just as I said few know about the attack on the USS Liberty, a fellow who happened to be just walking by my table said, “I do. I was there.”

He said he was aboard a US submarine that was there. Validation of his story to me was the fact that he happened to be wearing a baseball cap with the submariner symbol. I was remiss in taking note whether the cap indicated the submarine he was on.

He said yes, there was US submarine there, the one he was on, and that there was a Russian submarine there, and also a French submarine, which he said went down... that's right... was sunk. He was brief and tight lipped in his descriptions because he said he was talking around classified information. I can understand that if that indeed did occur why the French wouldn't want word of that going out.

Story Two (related to Story One): I talked to one sailor who served aboard an aircraft carrier (don't recall which, would have to dig up information) who told me that the Brits gifted a submarine to Israel and that Israel flew a crew to England to sail it back to Israel. The submarine never made it back to Israel. Pay back for the sinking of the French submarine?

Story Three: According to a sailor on the aircraft carrier USS America (a friend now who shares emails with me), the Israelis had a helicopter hovering over the USS Liberty and were about to ladder down a kill team to finish the job but buggered off when the Russian submarine in the waters surfaced to let the Israelis know there they were witnessing the event.

My friend from the USS America also told me: “You know Rick, we sent out two squadrons of planes from the ship that day, one to rescue the Liberty and one... armed with nukes... to bomb Egypt. The squadron sent to rescue the Liberty was recalled by order of the president, and the squadron flying to bomb Egypt was recalled because the Liberty didn't go down.

greencrow said...

Hi RicKB

Thanks very much for this information. It does support the idea of the Russians witnessing (and thus preventing) the attack and attempted sinking of USS Liberty.

I had to smile when I read your #2

"...Story Two (related to Story One): I talked to one sailor who served aboard an aircraft carrier (don't recall which, would have to dig up information) who told me that the Brits gifted a submarine to Israel and that Israel flew a crew to England to sail it back to Israel. The submarine never made it back to Israel. Pay back for the sinking of the French submarine?"

Canadians also bought a couple of British submarines and they were the biggest "lemons" in the history of naval vessels. I don't believe Canada ever used them...although they cost the country million$. I believe the Brits selling them to us was a covert 'act of war'.

From the examples you give...it looks like Americans are well aware of the "hidden history" of the USS Liberty...but the history has been so defiled with disinformation...it may never recover...alas.

gc

RickB said...

No Greencrow, generally Americans don't know about the USS Liberty. Silly me, I was envisioning starting a cult following selling my targets. That hasn't happened. Americans are too dumbed down and stupid to ever get it regarding Israel. My stories came from a few individuals involved with the incident. And my friend from the USS America constantly sends me emails regarding the Islam evil meme. I shoot back that its the jews, jews, jews.

One email he sent entitled “This is coming” was about some Muslim politician being groomed for a presidential run. I shot back an email entitled “This is already here” which linked the website “takebackourrights.org” pointing out our noahide laws that legalize our jew government to execute Christians.

Greg Bacon said...

Here's another oddity about the cowardly Israeli attack on the Liberty:

The admiral of the fleet nearest the Liberty that launched the two American fighter jets that were called back by the SOB LBJ was Admiral Morrison, the father of Jim Morrison who would die four years later, supposedly of a heart attack, without an autopsy being performed, meaning they were guessing what caused Jim's untimely death.

Admiral Morrison had advocated launching a retaliatory strike against Israel and blockading their ports, but was overruled by the traitor LBJ.

greencrow said...

Hi RickB

Do you have a photo of your target? If you send it to me as a jpeg, I'll post it on this blog. As an artist, I would love to see it. Yes, it is amazing how gullible most Americans are about "blame the muslims". That's been a real success up here in Canada too. The muslims need a world class leader to stand up to the propaganda. Muhammed Ali was the only one they had in the US.

Yes, I've said on this blog how Obama was groomed (brain washed) for the presidency from a young age. Thanks once again for your comments re USS Liberty.

greencrow said...

Hi Greg:

Yes, any comprehensive history of USS Liberty that is written once the Russians "fess up" to what actually went down with their Destroyer 626/4 would have to include the James Morrison connection. Perhaps James Morrison the Rock Star knew too much about the USS Liberty and/or what his father was up to in the US Navy as the most powerful Admiral of the day.

But then again, they were killing off rock stars on a regular basis in those days....ending up with the assassination of John Lennon.

RickB said...

Greencrow, you can see the banner that I use and read a bit of my story of selling my targets here: http://ww3zionism.blogspot.com/2015/01/uss-liberty-banner-to-make-inaugural.html

All of my targets have the meme Remember the USS Liberty in the footer area of the target.

In response to that linked post on my blog, I received a donation to my paypal account from none other than the chaplain of the USS Liberty, Ron Kukal. Needlesss to say my feet weren't touching the ground that entire weekend of that show.

greencrow said...

Hi RickB:

What an honoUr to get a donation from the USS Liberty chaplain...and what does that say about your POV that you have his support! Can you send me the link to your "...little handout that describes the attack on the USS Liberty."?

I would like to do a follow up post with your target and the handout. Thanks very much if you're able. If you can't I will also understand.

gc

SingingSam said...

I don't now whether the Russians witnessed the attack or had anything to do with ending the attack. I believe the attack ended bacause it became clear to the powers behind it that they lost control of the narrative. LBJ and McNamara were forced into the open because the Liberty didn't sink as quickly as planned.

It is entirely plausible that a Russian destroyer offered assistance and remained nearby when no other help was available. Sailors do not always mirror the views and policies of their governments. No sailor with an ounce of decency will see a ship in great distress far from shore and just shrug. The Liberty declined the offer because they didn't know who they could trust and because the Liberty was the most sophisticated spy ship in its day. You can't let the enemy see what you have.

I hope the Russians will have more to say, but silence is a valuable commodity to anyone engaged in diplomatic give and take. Much could be learned if the men on board the subs in the vicinity would finally spit out their gags. James Ennes has more to say about the sub topic at http://www.ussliberty.org/submarine.txt. Well worth a read.

Thank you GC for remembering that June 8 is a date that screams for justice.